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Balanced view of Hillary vs Trump scandals
Topic Started: Sep 26 2016, 06:48 PM (1,193 Views)
Doggo Champion 2k17
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I could post this to anyone else here on the forum and they wouldn't take it negatively or even remotely condescending. That wasn't my intention and if you see it as such the problem is between the chair and computer. This is the second time I've had such a fluff argument here with you. You're still wrong on the rhetorical question thing though lol, since as you quoted you can present something in a persuasive and literary manner for it to be a rhetorical question. By posing the link as a rhetorical question, I'm saying whatever is in the link should make it obvious that he's racist.

I'll reiterate: "If it is a rhetorical question, then it was a poorly written one and done in bad taste. Let's just drop it."

Have you stopped to wonder if perhaps it's the way you present yourself? My initial post was calm, collected, and a good contribution. You were the one who responded in a condescending manner. And yes, I did see it as condescending considering it was the complete rejection of my own post and opinion. It was an "I'm right, you're wrong" statement, and I didn't like that. A list of outdated articles doesn't make you correct.

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Good to know we're getting somewhere.

Condescending.

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It didn't before, but that kind of thing can now force you to make multi billion dollar decisions (a link)

I don't know if you get this, but some forum skins don't show links very well at all. I'm currently using Frostee, in which I notice no variation unless I already know that it's a link beforehand. Usually people post links in hypertext so this isn't a problem.

Quote:
 
His rhetoric is still bad, so I'd say he's making a business decision and not a moral one. Hillary changed and her rhetoric changed. She doesn't support homophobia at all now. To say that Trump is no longer a racist because he's no longer as bad as he used to be is a weak argument imo.

You're misunderstanding my argument. I never said that he isn't a racist because he's no longer as bad as he used to be. I'm saying that he isn't a racist because there is no hatred or intentional discrimination present in his speech. Are the things he says ignorant? Yes. Are they politically incorrect? Yes. Are they racist? No. Racism is quite different from political incorrectness, just as not all rhetorical questions adequately project their intended meaning.

I suppose at the end of the day it comes down to our own interpretation of terms, and clearly we differ there, so if your argument is going in that direction it's best to leave things here.

And just to clarify, I really don't have anything against you. I just have this thing called pride that seems to inflate when I feel dumb (i.e. not being able to distinguish links from text).
Edited by Doggo Champion 2k17, Sep 26 2016, 09:42 PM.
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Mihawk
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Quote:
 
I'll reiterate: "If it is a rhetorical question, then it was a poorly written one and done in bad taste. Let's just drop it."

It doesn't seem poorly written to me. I'm ok with dropping it.

Quote:
 

Have you stopped to wonder if perhaps it's the way you present yourself? My initial post was calm, collected, and a good contribution. You were the one who responded in a condescending manner. And yes, I did see it as condescending considering it was the complete rejection of my own post and opinion. It was an "I'm right, you're wrong" statement, and I didn't like that. A list of outdated articles doesn't make you correct.

It 100% was and it had a lot of substance on it and I wish the rest of the thread went that way. My response wasn't condescending at all though. I think I might have gotten a bit towards the end of the thread in response to yours but just pointing out someone being wrong isn't bad. It might have come across as sharp because you didn't realize that my argument was completely different from what you initially assumed it was (and that would mainly be your fault).

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Condescending.

Don't agree

Quote:
 
You're misunderstanding my argument. I never said that he isn't a racist because he's no longer as bad as he used to be. I'm saying that he isn't a racist because there is no hatred or intentional discrimination present in his speech. Are the things he says ignorant? Yes. Are they politically incorrect? Yes. Are they racist? No. Racism is quite different from political incorrectness, just as not all rhetorical questions adequately project their intended meaning.

I suppose at the end of the day it comes down to our own interpretation of terms, and clearly we differ there, so if your argument is going in that direction it's best to leave things here.

And just to clarify, I really don't have anything against you. I just have this thing called pride that seems to inflate when I feel dumb (i.e. not being able to distinguish links from text).

The point we're arguing is: Is Trump racist? I think we both agree he's been a racist in the past. My question to you is: what has he done that would prompt you to think he no longer is racist? What evidence do we have that he isn't anymore? If someone has been racist, then no longer have extreme racism in their speeches doesn't qualify them as no longer being racist. His speech still a ton of racist undertone, so the evidence is on the side that he's still a racist.

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+ Emmeth
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I Yoeri

Off-topic first: I think you both overreact to each other's posts. I don't see anything overly condescending about Mihawk's posts and I don't think there's a right or a wrong in this case, it's up to interpretation.

On-topic: Without having seen this video I can safely say that I think John Oliver does an excellent job on these sort of things. I'll watch it later tonight, but for now I have other things to do. I'll comment when I do watch it.
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Doggo Champion 2k17
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Quote:
 
It might have come across as sharp because you didn't realize that my argument was completely different from what you initially assumed it was (and that would mainly be your fault).

It wasn't really a matter of me misunderstanding your argument. You didn't really present an argument in the OP anyway. I was just responding to the generic question: Is Trump a racist? lol

Quote:
 
The point we're arguing is: Is Trump racist? I think we both agree he's been a racist in the past. My question to you is: what has he done that would prompt you to think he no longer is racist? What evidence do we have that he isn't anymore? If someone has been racist, then no longer have extreme racism in their speeches doesn't qualify them as no longer being racist. His speech still a ton of racist undertone, so the evidence is on the side that he's still a racist.

That could go both ways, though. We don't really have any evidence to say that he is or isn't truly a racist since we don't actually know how he feels anymore. Of course he's not going to air his dirty laundry now that he's a presidential candidate, but we also don't know if he has any dirty laundry to air anymore. We also don't know how evil Hillary Clinton actually is, so does any of this matter at the end of the day?

There are a few facts supporting the "Donald Trump isn't a racist" argument, but I can't list them all right now. Some would be his wife being an immigrant, his support of black people since beginning his presidential campaign, and his stance on immigration in general: he supports immigration as long as it's legal.

@Emmeth: Don't tell me I'm overreacting, you overripe turd!
Edited by Doggo Champion 2k17, Sep 26 2016, 10:00 PM.
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Mihawk
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It isn't a binary level of evidence though. Being a racist is at x point in your life makes your more likely to be a racist person at point y in your life. This isn't the same as someone with a clean slate. No longer speaking racist terms can easily just be attributed to be a business decision. That said he still has said some outright racist things recently that even Paul Ryan admitted was racist.

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